Author Topic: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack  (Read 4254 times)

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Offline SeanLang

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Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« on: April 03, 2014, 09:23:42 PM »

PGI is wanting to utilize community feedback on future Hero Designs. They have allowed me to ask around, directly to YOU the community members! To begin this process your task will be to design a 'Hero Blackjack' battlemech. I will be collecting the builds and presenting them to PGI directly, as they want to tap into the huge resource that is the active community.

So this is your task at hand, to design a 'Hero Blackjack' that you would like to see PGI come out with. Please provide an explanation of why you picked said loadout. You can also provide extra information, such as torso twist speed, acceleration etc...

Quote
Template
Battlemech
Engine: XXX Std/XL
Structure: Std/Endo
Armor: Std/FF
Heatsinks: Single/Double
JJ: N/A / Capable
Equipment: BAP / ECM / AMS
Module Slots: xx

Weapons & Equipment
Head:
CT: x2 Medium Laser
LT: xxx
RT: xxx
LA: xxx
RA: xxx
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Hardpoints
CT: x energy / missile / ballstic / AMS / GECM
LT: xxx
RT: xxx
LA: xxx
RA: xxx
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Qwerks
x Acceleration
x Pitch/Yaw
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 08:24:56 PM by SeanLang »

Offline SeanLang

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 10:51:32 PM »
From Reddit:

Quote
sporkhandsknifemouth
Template - 45 ton IS battlemech, no lower arm actuators in either arm.
Battlemech - BJ-0 "Trump Card"
Engine: XL 270
Structure: Endo
Armor: Std
Heatsinks: Double
JJ: Capable - 6 hardpoints, 6 equipped stock
Equipment: AMS, JJ x6, BAP
Module Slots: 3
-Weapons & Equipment
Head: 1x AMS
CT: x2 Medium Laser
LT: 1x JJ
RT: 1x JJ, 1x BAP
LA: 3x LRM5, 3x LRM5 ammo
RA: 3x MG, 1x MG ammo, 1x AMS ammo
LL: 2x JJ
RL: 2x JJ
-Hardpoints
H: 1x AMS
CT: 2x energy
LT: -
RT: -
LA: 3x Missile
RA: 3x Ballistic
LL: -
RL: -
-Qwerks
default +5% Acceleration/+5% deceleration
default - 5 degrees Pitch/Yaw
Added in an armor layout as well
H – 18
CT – 42 F / 14 B
LT - 32 F / 12 B
RT - 32 F / 12 B
LA - 28
RA - 28
LL - 44
RL - 44
Note: Errors fixed

Offline Wilson

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2014, 12:12:36 AM »
BJ-M Monica (name subject to change)
Engine: 200 STD
Structure: Endo
Armor: FF
Heatsinks: Double
JJ: Capable, 4/4
Equipment: ECM / AMS
Module Slots: 2

Weapons & Equipment
Head: xxx
CT: 200 STD Engine, 2 Jump Jet- Class IV
LT: LRM 5, 2 Jump Jet - Class IV, 1 Double Heat Sink
RT: LRM 5, ECM, 2 Double Heat Sink
LA: Large Laser
RA: Large Laser
LL:  LRM Ammo x1
RL: LRM Ammo x1

Hardpoints
CT: xxx
LT: 1 Missile (6 tubes), 1 AMS
RT: 1 Missile (6 tubes), 1 ECM
LA: 1 Energy
RA: 1 Energy
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Qwerks
Acceleration: Whatever the BJ-1X is.
Torso Yaw: 80 Degrees
Torso Pitch: 30 Degrees
Arm Yaw: 0 Degrees
Arm Pitch: 30 Degrees

Armor:
Head:     16/18
CT:        44/44
CT Rear: 12/12
LT:        34/34
LT Rear: 10/10
RT:        34/34
RT Rear: 10/10
LA:        28/28
RA:        28/28
LL:        44/44
RL:        44/44



There is an obvious problem with my hero blackjack proposal containing an ECM hardpoint. And that is, the inevitable "pay2win" comments on giving a hero such powerful electronic warfare equipment. But as I was thinking about a possible hero variant for the blackjack, ECM made more and more sense to me. The Blackjack, being a medium mech that generally does not preform a "scouting" role, serves as an unique ECM platform than any other ECM mech currently available in MWO. I suppose the BJ-M's closest cousin in that regard is the cicada-3M, but that mech generally tries to keep up with the light mechs and uses its ECM in an offensive, LRM spotting, information-gathering way. The BJ-M, with its relatively large profile and top speed of 103 kph (assuming 260 engine limit and speed tweak), does not fit this role, and is likely to use its ECM in a more defensive, team-oriented manner. Similar to the role of the D-DC, but that mech can also be strong, front-line force, something I don't believe the Blackjack can be.

With ECM, missile hardpoints come naturally, as missile systems obviously work well with the electronic warfare equipment available in the game. I stayed conservative with only 2 missile hardpoints, because 4 missile hardpoints would essentially make the mech a BJ-2 with ECM, and an odd number of hardpoints would feel strange on a symmetrical mech like the BJ (What I mean here is, I don't think a shoulder pod of missiles (timberwolf, hunchback 4J, etc.) makes sense on a blackjack). 2 LRM 5's in those hardpoints solidifies this mech as the type of medium that doesn't see the front lines, but rather deals consistent damage from range. Obviously these missile hardpoints allow for srms and streaks, the latter I have high hopes for with an engine limit of 260. I made sure the tubes in each hardpoint allowed for srm 6's if the pilot chooses.

The arms having only 1 Energy hardpoint each was fairly obvious for me, as this design is heavily influenced from the BJ-2 Variant which has 1 ER large laser in each arm. The BJ-M, to me, seems like a variant that a pilot created after seeing the BJ-2, deciding the streak SRMs had too short a range for the chassis and his piloting style, and replaced them with long range missiles.

Overall, I'm very proud of my design. Having only 4 hardpoints total might be strange for a blackjack, but for a mech which commonly sees such large weapons as AC/20's and PPC's, I don't see this as too much of a problem. I also based the acceleration and pitch/yaw data on the BJ-1X variant, for they both have an increased engine limit. I kept the engine standard because, as a variant that already has Double Heat sinks, Ferro Fibrous, ECM, and Endo-steel structure, having an XL engine as well would make it just a tad too much value in my opinion.

Here is a smurfy link to the stock loadout. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=77&l=e364a79513e63325fcf8c61210a8a5c8a81c22d5 consider BAP to be ECM and the 2 medium pulse lasers to be LRM 5's.

Edit: fixed typo's and added armor values.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 12:27:12 AM by Wilson »

Offline GMan129

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2014, 12:42:40 AM »
Blackjack BJ-E "Eureka"
Engine: 280 XL
Structure: Endo
Armor: FF (304 Points)
Heatsinks: Double
JJ: 2 (2 Max)
Equipment: None
Module Slots: 1

Weapons & Equipment
Head: SSRM Ammo
CT: x2 Jump Jets - Class IV
LT: Medium Laser, SRM 6
RT: Medium Laser, SRM 6
LA: SSRM 2
RA: SSRM2
LL: SSRM Ammo, SRM Ammo
RL: SRM Ammo

Hardpoints
LT: 1 Energy, 1 Missile, 1 AMS
RT: 1 Energy, 1 Missile
LA: 1 Missile
RA: 1 Missile

Qwerks
-10% Acceleration
-10% Pitch/Yaw Speed
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 12:49:31 AM by GMan129 »

Offline Mr Nikson

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2014, 01:19:44 AM »
BJ-2-R Reaper (name subject to change)
Engine: 235 STD (235 Max)
Structure: Endo
Armor: Standart
Heatsinks: Double
JJ: Capable, 3/4
Equipment:
Module Slots: 3

Weapons & Equipment
Head: SSRM2
CT: 235 STD Engine, SSRM2, 1 Jump Jet- Class IV
LT: SSRM2, Jump Jet - Class IV, Double Heat Sink
RT: SSRM2, BAP
LA: 2 Medium Laser
RA: 2 Medium Laser
LL:  SSRM Ammo x2
RL: SSRM Ammo x1

Hardpoints
Head: 1 Missile (2 tubes)
CT: 1 Missile (2 tubes)
LT: 1 Missile (2 tubes), 1 AMS
RT: 1 Missile (2 tubes)
LA: 2 Energy
RA: 2 Energy
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Qwerks
Whatever the BJ-1 is.


Armor:
Head:     16/18
CT:        44/44
CT Rear: 12/12
LT:        34/34
LT Rear: 10/10
RT:        34/34
RT Rear: 10/10
LA:        28/28
RA:        28/28
LL:        44/44
RL:        44/44
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 01:48:14 AM by Mr Nikson »

Offline VictorMorson

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2014, 02:26:31 AM »
The point of a hero 'mech is to offer a different experience from other 'mechs of that chassis type or class.  However, the best heroes are ones with a coherent theme of weapons with some merit; the scattered "Missile, ballistic, energy" approach makes for a poor hero that sees poor sales.

Thus I set out to look at the Blackjack and see what could be offered differently.  Missiles just didn't seem to fit on a 'mech that's not about missiles, and not known for missiles, even though it would certainly be different.  However, focusing more on the ballistic side and came up with this 'mech, inspired by the fact MGs are actually a somewhat decent weapon when mounted in large groups:

BlackJack "Double Down"
Battlemech
Engine: 280 XL
Structure: Endo
Armor: FF
Heatsinks: Double
JJ: 1
Equipment: AMS
Module Slots: 6

Weapons & Equipment
Head:
CT: 1x Jump Jet
LT: 2x Tons MG Ammo
RT: 3x Tons AC/10 Ammo
LA: 5x MG
RA: 1x AC10
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Hardpoints
CT: xxx
LT: 1x AMS
RT: xxx
LA: 5x Ballistic
RA: 1x Ballistic
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Armor
HD: 16/18
CT: 38/18
CTR: 14/14
RT: 30/14
RTR: 14/14
LT: 30/14
LTR: 14/14
RA: 28
LA: 28
RL: 44
LL: 44

Quirks
Same Acceleration over BJ-1
Same Pitch/Yaw as BJ-1


--

I should note that due to it's weight, exploiting the all-ballistic design would be nearly impossible; it simply isn't heavy enough to turn it into an effective twin AC/20 or twin Gauss 'mech, nor run 3x Ultra setups or anything of the sort; however, you could possibly get some neat AC/2+AC/5 configs on it, and do an array of ballistic-oriented activities that would fit well with it.

The single jump jet was added to allow it to stick with a medium lance and pass over rough terrain, because without the jump jet it would be largely ineffective at keeping up with the kinds of 'mechs that it's designed to operate with.  Very few 'mechs have a single jet slot, which also sets it apart.

Finally, this hero was setup to be an attractive option out of the box, with Ferro+Endo+DHS already installed.  I have a personal strong dislike of heroes that lack this, as it tacks a tax on an already expensive investment.

ED:  It would be my hope that it might find a competitive use using a simple setup like a pair of AC/5s, while remaining popular with the casual crowd with all MGs.  It'd be a niche 'mech, but the best heroes are.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 02:34:33 AM by VictorMorson »

Offline Versialles

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2014, 02:28:31 AM »
BJ-CLB (Jack of Clubs)
Engine: 210 XL
Structure: Endo
Armor: Std
Heatsinks: Double
JJ: Capable: 4/4
Equipment: BAP
Module Slots: 2

Weapons & Equipment
Head:
CT: x2 Medium Laser
LT: 2x Double Heat Sink
RT:2x Double Heat Sink, BAP
LA: 2x LRM5, 3x LRM Ammo
RA: 2x LRM5, 3x LRM Ammo
LL: 2x Jump Jet
RL: 2x Jump Jet

Hardpoints
CT: 2x Energy
LT:  AMS
RT: xxx
LA:3x Missile
RA: 3x Missile
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Qwerks
x Acceleration
+15% Yaw


This gives the Blackjack a missile variant, making a nice little indirect fire support medium. It has the same number of weapon hardpoints and four jump jets, keeping it in balanced with the other BJ variants. It could also have a decal of LRM contrail curving to the right and blossoming into four missiles, to for the clubs symbol. It would offer a variety of game play by converting the missiles to 4x SRM4s or 4x SSRM2s

edit: spelling
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 11:59:04 AM by Versialles »

Offline VictorMorson

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2014, 02:31:25 AM »
This gives the Blackjack a missile variant, making a nice litle indirect fire support medium.

The problem with your design is it would not play out remotely as you intended it. 

Effectively nobody would use this an LRM 'mech and the stock twin LRM/5 would not crack even the lightest of AMS bubbles.  That's not to say what you made is bad:  It'd actually be very good, but only as a Streak light-hunter with the largest engine you can fit and 6x SSRM2, surpassing the KTO-18's firepower 10 tons lighter.

Again, would this be a bad 'mech?  Absolutely not.  In fact it'd probably skyrocket to one of the best light hunters in the game.  But it definitely wouldn't go as you described/planned.

EDIT:  Though I am wondering why every single person is dumping loads of missiles onto the Blackjack in various forms.  Do you guys want another disaster like the Grid Iron?  At least Versialles here has 6 optimally-placed missile hard points, which is a TON of firepower; but these 2-launcher designs are a terrible idea.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 02:37:28 AM by VictorMorson »

Offline Carrioncrows

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2014, 02:51:12 AM »
Battlemech - "Billy Club" - Angus "Red" Mcgreer
Engine: 180XL
Structure: Endo
Armor: Std
Heatsinks: Double
JJ: 2/4 Capable
Equipment:
Module Slots: xx

Weapons & Equipment
Head:
CT: xxx
LT: x2 SRM2's
RT: x2 SRM2's
LA: x1 AC5
RA: x1 Large laser
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Hardpoints
CT: x energy / missile / ballstic / AMS / GECM
LT: x2 Missile
RT: x2 Missile
LA: x1 Ballistic
RA: x1 Energy
LL: xxx
RL: xxx

Qwerks
x Acceleration -10%
x Pitch/Yaw -5%
Stay Frosty!

Offline Strum Wealh

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2014, 05:13:12 AM »
"The Arrow", the personal Blackjack of Michael Ubodo, has been mentioned in TRO 3025 (pg. 46), TRO 3039 (pg. 128) , and TRO 3050U (pg. 46).
Ubodo, the hero of the Battle of Xhosa VII in 3022 & an AFFS Leftenant-Colonel as of 3050, and his Blackjack have proudly served House Davion and the AFFS for decades (both in-universe, and out), and it would be somewhat disappointing to not see Ubodo & "the Arrow" not recognized in MWO.

That being said, the loadout of "the Arrow" is not described in any of the TROs, which leaves some room for interpretation with regard to the loadout.

BJ-TA "The Arrow"
Pilot: Michael Ubodo
  • Tonnage: 45
  • Engine: 180 XL
  • Top Speed: 64.8 kph
  • Max Engine Rating: 235
  • Armor: 236 (Ferro-Fibrous)
  • Internal Structure: Standard
  • Torso Movement:
    • 110 degrees to each side.
    • 30 degrees up and down.
  • Arm Movement:
    • 0 degrees to each side.
    • 30 degrees up and down.
  • Weapons & Equipment:
    • Left Arm: AC/10
    • Left Torso: Medium Laser, AMS
    • Right Torso: Medium Laser, AMS
    • Right Arm: SRM-6
    • x2 tons of AC ammunition
    • x2 tons of SRM ammunition
    • x1 ton of AMS ammunition
  • Hardpoints:
    • Left Arm: 2 Ballistic
    • Left Torso: 1 Energy, 1 AMS
    • Right Torso: 1 Energy, 1 AMS
    • Right Arm: 2 Missile
  • Heat Sinks: 10 Double
  • Jump Jets: 4 (4 Max)
  • ECM Capable?: No
  • Module Slots: 2
  • Movement Archetype: Medium
  • Quirks: none
  • 30% C-Bill Bonus
The base 'Mech is very similar to the BJ-1 and BJ-3 in terms of arm & torso pitch/twist ranges, and has Engine rating & Jump Jet limitations common to all Blackjacks.
Where the proposed rendition of "the Arrow" becomes distinctive is in its unique weapon configuration (in being the only Blackjack to carry both ballistics and missiles, , and being the only Blackjack that would not allow for a symmetrical distribution of weaponry, and being one of the few "left-handed" 'Mechs where the "big gun(s)" are on the left side rather than the right) & in its ability to equip twin AMS assemblies.
Reactor: Online.
Sensors: Online.
Weapons: Online.
MechWarrior: Online...

Offline VictorMorson

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 07:56:08 AM »
"The Arrow", the personal Blackjack of Michael Ubodo, has been mentioned in TRO 3025 (pg. 46), TRO 3039 (pg. 128) , and TRO 3050U (pg. 46).
Ubodo, the hero of the Battle of Xhosa VII in 3022 & an AFFS Leftenant-Colonel as of 3050, and his Blackjack have proudly served House Davion and the AFFS for decades (both in-universe, and out), and it would be somewhat disappointing to not see Ubodo & "the Arrow" not recognized in MWO.

That being said, the loadout of "the Arrow" is not described in any of the TROs, which leaves some room for interpretation with regard to the loadout.

I greatly approve Lore-based 'mechs.  I would prefer if nearly all heroes were this way.

Offline MuonNeutrino

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 08:38:18 AM »
"The Arrow", the personal Blackjack of Michael Ubodo, has been mentioned in TRO 3025 (pg. 46), TRO 3039 (pg. 128) , and TRO 3050U (pg. 46).
Ubodo, the hero of the Battle of Xhosa VII in 3022 & an AFFS Leftenant-Colonel as of 3050, and his Blackjack have proudly served House Davion and the AFFS for decades (both in-universe, and out), and it would be somewhat disappointing to not see Ubodo & "the Arrow" not recognized in MWO.

That being said, the loadout of "the Arrow" is not described in any of the TROs, which leaves some room for interpretation with regard to the loadout.

...

This one gets my vote. Does something different from the standard blackjacks, but in an interesting way that still allows for flexibility and simultaneously doesn't gimp the mech. And the lore connection is very nice.

[I might swap the missile and energy hardpoints, but that's probably just me being greedy since I personally would prefer to have them that way if I drove one. It fits the loadout of the BJ-2, but if this is supposed to be based on a BJ-1 then that isn't relevant. That said, you give me a blackjack with 2 energy 2 ballistic in the arms and 2 missile in the torsos and I would play the *heck* out of that. (Probably make the stock loadout be 2 SRM4 and drop the dual AMS idea.)]
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 08:58:14 AM by MuonNeutrino »

Offline Wilson

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 08:49:39 AM »
The problem with your design is it would not play out remotely as you intended it. 



Perhaps it's not clear, but I kind of realized no one would want to use the LRMs, I mean I did give it ECM and a larger engine limit. I was just trying to be conservative on a new ECM platform with the number of missile hardpoints, and the Large Laser+ LRM 5 plan seemed like a nice way to introduce the hardpoints from the perspective of one pilot's decision to modify the BJ-2. I was really really tempted to essentially just make the BJ-2 with ECM, but I felt that would bit a bit too powerful.

I think I probably went overboard though, I probably should have used SRM 4's instead, as you're right, effective LRM 10 isn't doing much after the recent LRM and AMS changes, but I still think this mech has potential outside the stock loadout. I can't imagine the 6 launcher builds ever being approved, as sweet as it would be.

The arrow gets my vote so far, I didn't consider giving the BJ the jaeger A's missile arms and it kind of makes sense.


Edit: just realized you wern't talking about my build. Well what I said applies to both anyway
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 12:42:55 PM by Wilson »

Offline THATONE

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2014, 09:12:23 AM »
Here's a way to make instant money for PGI:

Step 1: Make a BJ with a lot of missile hardpoints
Step 2: Fix SRM reg (coming soon, right...)
Step 3: Release hero BJ on the SAME DAY as SRM reg is fixed (and advertise the hell out of it)
Step 4: Profit

And step 5: Don't nerf SRMs the next week.  ::PGI::
"Confidence is very high that worst case scenario is the completion of the entire Community Warfare feature set as we currently understand it by Early to Mid-fall." - Russ B, State of the Inner Sphere, 2013

Offline [CW] CyclonerM

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Re: Buildcrafting: Hero Blackjack
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2014, 09:30:39 AM »
"The Arrow", the personal Blackjack of Michael Ubodo, has been mentioned in TRO 3025 (pg. 46), TRO 3039 (pg. 128) , and TRO 3050U (pg. 46).
Ubodo, the hero of the Battle of Xhosa VII in 3022 & an AFFS Leftenant-Colonel as of 3050, and his Blackjack have proudly served House Davion and the AFFS for decades (both in-universe, and out), and it would be somewhat disappointing to not see Ubodo & "the Arrow" not recognized in MWO.

That being said, the loadout of "the Arrow" is not described in any of the TROs, which leaves some room for interpretation with regard to the loadout.

The base 'Mech is very similar to the BJ-1 and BJ-3 in terms of arm & torso pitch/twist ranges, and has Engine rating & Jump Jet limitations common to all Blackjacks.



I approve this!