Author Topic:  The Clan Origins (IIC) Pack - Analysis and...comments...  (Read 7134 times)

10 Jul 15

Read 7134 times

Offline GMan129

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Heyo! I'm here today to talk in detail about the Clan Origins IIC Mech Pack thingy. Disclaimer: this is all opinion, and worse, most of it is just a prediction of opinion. Make of it what you will.

While I look at probable builds and such for these mechs, I'm going to be using my (not-so) special spreadsheet to calculate tonnages and slots and crap. It's not fancy or anything, but if you're interested in seeing how I sort the numbers, be my guest. I usually do this work in Excel, but I want to make sure people have an idea of where I'm coming from. All this work is done on the assumptions that Clan non-Omnimechs (or as I like to call them, nomnimechs) function like IS mechs but with access to clan tech. Meaning, no swappable omnipods, but you can add or remove upgrades at will, and the critical slots of said upgrades are dynamic rather than fixed. From the information PGI has given the community, this seems likely, but even if it's more restricted, most of the following holds true.

Anyways, let's get into the Builds

Light Mech: Jenner IIC

This thing will basically be just a much better version of the current IS Jenner. Literally, better in every way, and that's an improvement on an already good (not best in class, but good) mech. We're looking at a mech that mixes all the best bits of current Clan and IS mechs into a quick and powerful mech that can survive losing a side torso and pretty high mounts. And jumpjets. Gon' be cray.

Free room with Endo, Ferro, Max Armor, and Max Engine (XL315): 9 tons, 33 slots
with XL295: 12 tons, 33 slots

JR7-IIC
  • Build 1: XL295 (150KPH), 2xJJ, 6xSRM4, 5 tons ammo, 10xDHS
  • Build 2: XL295 (150KPH), 2xJJ, 6xSSRM2, 4 tons ammo, CAP, 10xDHS

JR7-IIC-2 (worst variant)
  • Build 1: XL310 (158KPH), 1xJJ, 4xcERML, 1xSSRM6, 1 ton ammo, TC1, 10xDHS

JR7-IIC-3
  • Build 1: XL295 (150KPH), 2xJJ, 4xcSPL, 2xSRM4, 2 tons ammo, 13xDHS

JR7-IIC-A (best variant)
  • Build 1: XL280 (143KPH), 2xJJ, 5xcERML, TC1, 16xDHS
  • Build 2: XL295 (150KPH), 2xJJ, 6xcSPL, TC1, 14xDHS

Medium Mech: Hunchback IIC

Like the Jenner IIC, the Hunchback IIC seems to take everything badass about Clan and IS mechs and exemplify the best of each. It can go at Nova speeds to use builds more devastating than the Stormcrow, or slow it down and turn into a jumpjetting Jagermech, or speed way up and brawl like a madman. Seriously, most versatile chassis, and looks like it will be insanely good at, well, everything. I think of it like...have you ever seen the movie Twins? Well, the mommy and daddy are like a Stormcrow and Jagermech, and think of something like the Commando as Danny Devito and the Hunchback IIC? That's Arnold goddamn Schwarzenegger. Seriously just look at those pecs.

Free room with Endo, Ferro, and Max Armor (not counting engine because almost any rating between 200 and 275 is viable): 39 tons, 39 slots
with no arm armor: 40.5 tons

HBK-IIC
  • Build 1: XL225 (80KPH), 1xJJ, 2xGauss, 5 tons ammo, 10DHS (can swap  out "Gauss" for "UAC20", same thing)
  • Build 2: XL200 (71KPH), 3xJJ, 2xGauss, 5.5 tons ammo, 10DHS
  • Build 3: XL225 (80KPH), 1xJJ, 2xcERML, 3xUAC5, 6 tons ammo, 10DHS
  • Build 4: STD200 (71KPH), 1xJJ, 2xGauss, 4 tons ammo, 10DHS - no armor on right side, both GR's in LT. Bad, but cool.

HBK-IIC-A
  • Build 1: XL255 (91KPH), 1xJJ, 1xcLPL, 5xcERML, TC1, 23xDHS
  • Build 2: XL275 (98KPH), 1xJJ, 2xcLPL, 3xcERML, TC1, 20xDHS
  • Build 3: XL255 (91KPH), 1xJJ, 4xcERLL, TC1, 20xDHS

HBK-IIC-B
  • Build 1: XL275 (98KPH), 1xJJ, 2xcERML, 4xSSRM6, 4 tons ammo, CAP, TC1, 15xDHS
  • Build 2: XL275 (98KPH), 1xJJ, 2xcMPL, 4xSRM6A, 5 tons ammo, TC1, 15xDHS

HBK-IIC-C (worst variant, by virtue of the other 3 being amazing)
  • Builds 1&2: Same as the dual Gausses as on the HBK-IIC
  • Build 3: XL225 (80KPH), 1xJJ, 4xcERML, 2xUAC5, 4.5 tons ammo, TC1, 14xDHS

Heavy Mech: Orion IIC

The Orion is a bit more shaky than the previous two. While they both had all the best qualities of the mechs in their class, the Orion feels more like a slower, landlocked Timber Wolf with more limited hardpoints. There's still some crazy and unique builds you can run on it, but...it definitely doesn't look like it will be a game-changer.

Free room with Endo, Ferro, and Max Armor (not counting engine): 59 tons, 41 slots

ON1-IIC (worst variant)
  • Build 1: XL300 (71KPH), 1xGauss, 3 tons ammo, 3xSSRM6, 3 tons ammo, 3xcERML, CAP, TC1, 19xDHS

ON1-IIC-A
  • Build 1: XL350 (83KPH), 1xLBX20, 3 tons ammo, 4xSSRM6A, 5 tons ammo, 2xcERSL, 16xDHS

ON1-IIC-B (best variant)
  • Build 1: XL325 (80KPH), 1xGauss, 3 tons ammo, 2xcLPL, 2xcERML, TC1, 20xDHS

ON1-IIC-C
  • Build 1: STD300 (71KPH), 2xGauss, 5.5 tons ammo, 1xcERPPC, TC1, 10xDHS

Assault Mech: Highlander IIC

And so we've arrived at the most disappointing mech of the pack. It has roughly the same available tonnage as the Dire Wolf...but has maybe a quarter of the total hardpoints. Seriously, I made some builds that don't even have Endo because there's just too much tonnage. I'm kind of torn up about this, because on the one hand it feels like a wasted opportunity (add on a few energy hardpoints and/or a second ballistic in a different hardpoint and it might well have been better than the Dire Wolf), but on the other it's probably the most balanced mech of the pack (should perform on par with the Warhawk, but with jumpjets and probably better hitboxes).

Free room with Endo, Standard Armor, Max Armor, and cXL325: 68.5 tons, 47 slots

HGN-IIC
  • Build 1: XL325 (64KPH), 2xJJ, 1xGauss, 3.5 tons ammo, 3xcLPL, TC1, 22xDHS
  • Build 2: XL325 (64KPH), 1xJJ, 1xGauss, 3 tons ammo, 2xcLPL, 1xcERML, 3xLRM5, 5 tons ammo, TC1, CAP, 19xDHS

HGN-IIC-A
  • Build 1: XL325 (64KPH), 1xJJ, 4xcLPL, 3xSRM6A, 3 tons ammo, TC1, 22xDHS

HGN-IIC-B
  • Build 1: XL325 (64KPH), 1xJJ, 1xcLBX20, 3 tons ammo, 4xcSRM6A, 5 tons ammo, 2xcSPL, 21xDHS

HGN-IIC-C
  • Build 1: XL320 (63KPH), 1xJJ, 2xcUAC10, 5 tons ammo, 2xcLPL, 1xcERML, TC1, 20xDHS

Analysis

Since closed beta, when I looked at the Kodiak and thought about how that mech would be in this game, I knew that having mechs that could be customized as IS but use Clan tech was going to be a huge problem. And now that's all coming true. Potentially. I'm still hopeful for the upcoming "Battle Value" thing Russ talked about during the town hall, and the balance changes in the latest patch were actually surprisingly good.

I've been racking my mind to try to come up with a good idea to balance this crap. The problem I keep running into is just the Hunchback IIC in general. If you locked every single thing about it except for its armor and weapons/ammo/equipment...it would still be overpowered. It could still mount dual gauss comfortably, it could still do crazy laser vomit builds, pretty much everything would remain just as powerful. The only mechanisms currently in place that could help constrain it somewhat would be the things that are currently in place on Omnimechs (locked upgrades and slots, negaquirks), and putting those restraints on Clan nomnimechs would make the system of nomnimechs strictly inferior to Omnimechs due to the inability to swap omnipods.

Maybe it's just time we surrender to our new Hunchback overlords.



GMan129 is currently an officer of the Steel Jaguar competitive team, is the owner of and writer for MetaMechs, and recently begun writing at NGNG as well. He has been playing MechWarrior Online since the early days of closed beta, and has spent far too much time and money on this crap. If you're interested in supporting his self-destruction, consider contributing to his PayPal and Patreon accounts!
« Last Edit: 10 Jul 15 by Cattra Kell »

10 Jul 15

Reply #1

Offline jay35

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Quote
And so we've arrived at the most disappointing mech of the pack. It has roughly the same available tonnage as the Dire Wolf...but has maybe a quarter of the total hardpoints. Seriously, I made some builds that don't even have Endo because there's just too much tonnage. I'm kind of torn up about this, because on the one hand it feels like a wasted opportunity (add on a few energy hardpoints and/or a second ballistic in a different hardpoint and it might well have been better than the Dire Wolf)...

PGI seems to have the most trouble with hardpointing 80-90 ton IS assault mechs like the Awesome (Pretty Baby wtf), Victor (some of the VTR variants are atrociously bad), and the Highlander (which is 95t but consistently feels more like a sluggish version of an 80-90 tonner -- it's clearly nothing like a Banshee which is supposedly the same tonnage). Sadly, it seems that will always be the disappointing segment of the overall mech weight range, even in IIC form, unless they get useful hardpoints. Not surprised that the HGN IIC appears to suffer the same fate (though still better off due to Clan tech).

Quote
The problem I keep running into is just the Hunchback IIC in general. If you locked every single thing about it except for its armor and weapons/ammo/equipment...it would still be overpowered. It could still mount dual gauss comfortably

Well, sort of. I mean, it's not an IS XL that explodes the entire mech the first time a torso gauss rifle is hit (like in the Grid Iron, the epitome of a glass cannon), but having one in each torso does ensure that you can pop both torsos pretty quickly, and if they run Gauss instead of UAC20s, taking out both torsos happens pretty quickly thanks to the highly hittable hunches. Just look at how easily a DWF with torso gauss can pop. For a medium mech it happens that much faster due to significantly lower armor values, and with the HBK's hunches drawing additional fire, it may actually prove to be a risky build to run dual gauss on it (and that's good for balance). But not being locked to that would actually allow people to experiment with running dual UAC10s plus big lasers (or PPC?), or dual UAC20s but likely be slower(?) or carry less supporting weapons. Either way, there is a possibility it will not be as OP as is feared. Though "possibility" is the key word there. Whether or not PGI chooses to do it in such a way is the question. :) Your analysis is valuable toward helping them understand the potential OPness that could result if they don't take care in how they spec these new chassis.
« Last Edit: 10 Jul 15 by jay35 »

10 Jul 15

Reply #2

Offline Thell

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Hell yes the Hunchback IIC. Finally! And it is amazing. Kind of wondering if I should have skipped on the Highlander though.

11 Jul 15

Reply #3

Offline [CW] CyclonerM

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Looking for the source of all problems with IICs?

--> IS Battlemechs  ;)